Tuesday, January 29, 2008

The phun photobucket game...(a break from all the seriousness)

Answer the questions below
-Take each answer and type it into Photobucket.com
-Take a picture from the first page of results copy the html code.
-You cant copy the persons answers who posted this before you!

1. What is your hair color? blonde


2. Favorite place to travel to? provincetown


3. Favorite place to be? blogging


4. Favorite object? my toaster oven collection

Toaster Ovens: Left one, Black & Decker $12, Right one: ToastMaster, missing pan $10

5. Favorite Food? chips and guacamole


6. Favorite Animal? dogs


7. Favorite Color? rainbow


8. The town you were born in? Isle of Lesbos

Isle of Lesbos

9. Town you live in? Chicago


10. Pets name? cutey


11. Favorite Drink? hot tea

12. Nick Names? shrill feminist




13. Middle name? your mom

Your Mom

14. Last name? Know


Friday, January 25, 2008

Phags for Phelps: Not so ridiculous after all

What is the best way to get more people to join the fight for tolerance?

According to "Out" magazine author Josh Kilmer-Purcell, that would be by giving free publicity to The Phelps clan. He has created the "Phags for Phelps" movement as a means of getting more people to side with the GLBT community.

Or, as he explains it "Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church family just might be the most important GLBT activists since Stonewall. Why? Quite simply, because they give homophobes a bad name. Unlike stealth homophobes, the Phelps clan don't hide their repugnance under a bushel. Every time they appear on the nation's television screens, they show millions of Americans just how ugly unadulterated bigotry is."

I have to admit, he has a great point. Unlike some of our other anti-gay opponents, who make obtuse declarations and rationalizations and justifications for their intolerance, the Phelpses are loud and proud bigots.

By showing America just how ugly hate looks at its very worst, the Phelps AND Kilmer-Purcell are most likely encouraging the apathetic "fence-sitters" to support gays and lesbians.

Even Nate Phelps, the estranged son of Freddie Phelps admits it, "I have always contended that what my father is doing has been more helpful than hurtful to the GLBT cause. I have also been outspoken about the hypocrisy displayed by people only showing outrage for funeral protests when it's directed toward a group other than gays... I'd much prefer to have the in your face, truthful hatred of my family toward gays than the equivocating, hair-splitting justifications of so many in the mainstream who mask their prejudice with cute little sayings like "love the sinner, hate the sin" while they behave with hatred and prejudice by even defining it as sin." [emphasis added]

Kilmer-Purcell also says, "Shirley [Phelps] believes that God Hates Me, and that's Fine By Me. She isn't gonna hurt me, trick me into thinking she's 'tolerant,' or...and this is important...make me believe in the same thing she does. She's just telling me what she believes to be the truth, and making jokes about cooking chickens who've become pets.

I believe that Americans hate hate. And the more Shirley and her gospel of homophobic hate are exposed, the more friends GLBT Americans make. I want Shirley's message out there, and so does she. For different reasons. But it just might be the strangest win-win situation I've ever been a part of."

Right on, Josh. I am with you 100%.

Thursday, January 24, 2008

Has America learned from its past? Modern-day "McCarthywasms"

As mentioned in my previous article, Fitz has likened same-sex marriage proponents to terrorists that we are currently fighting* in the war.

Among Fitz' quotes, present and past:
"I found the specter of a man who spends half his time fighting America’s enemies within & the other half fighting Americas enemies abroad to be truly inspirational!"


"I think I understand your point. Free speech is very American.

(I can catalogue for you the momentous violations of free speech that results from the acceptance of same-sex "marriage" a under GLBT "rights" generally)

My point was not to call you un-American because you exercise free speech.

My point: and this explanation, is to say; that advocating for same-sex "marriage" (as well as it implementation) puts American society at risk.

In that sense I stand by my characterization of advocates of same-sex "marriage" to be "enemies of America" inasmuch as ss"m" threatens the social fabric of...well....America."


"I’m glad you caught that On Lawn. Very informative conversation concerning the mindset of the far left.
I knew that my “enemy within” comment was a bit incendiary. It seemed a nice fit rhetorically given the substance of Mr. French’s advocacy along with his service in Iraq.

Its not a term I employ on a regular basis to describe our adversaries. However it is a term I think is accurate in describing the entire leftist gender warriors especially in our universities."


"...The better Question (is)

Question: IS Jane Know a Neo-Marxist??

Answer: Yes, How can you tell? Why she seriously quotes roundly discredited works like the 1950’s The Authoritarian Personality Theodor W. Adorno, Else Frenkel-Brunswik & other infamous Marxists of the Frankfort School.

This all makes perfect since off [sic] coarse [sic] – this would explain the hostility to traditional families (also a prime source of the “Authoritarian Personality”) and the “obsession” with feminism and queer theory- fields replete with Marxists and locked into Hegelian master slave dialectics.

I have never seen a soviet show trial of a dissident academic held on a blog before….

Nice Job!!!"


"...And what does she try to tar Cultulogist[sic] with?

Being an “authoritarian personality”..

She brought that up in this very post (extensively)
Unless your[sic] totaly[sic] ignorant of the origins of your own thought.

I say my red baiting stands on its own.



"An “accurate depiction” originated and propagated by Frankfurt school Marxists."


"All I’m saying is that my worldview is philosophically under girded by Christianity and western civilization norms.
While you and your movement owes much more to Marxist radicalism & subversion."

Yes, Fitzy is really a simple mind. Part of me pities him. But just a small part. You see, people like Fitz have the potential to be dangerous. He advocates against same-sex marriage, on the grounds that...well... what exactly ARE his grounds?

It's very difficult to sift through the "Well, you're a Marxist, feminist, radical, gender-warrior, etc." name-calling to decipher just what his arguments against same-sex marriage are in the first place.

You will note in past dealings with him through my archives and those of Opine that he merely expects those accusations to stand on their own feet. Perhaps Fitz is practicing a form of denialism? As discussed over in Fannie's Room, denialism is "the employment of rhetorical tactics to give the appearance of argument or legitimate debate, when in actuality there is none. These false arguments are used when one has few or no facts to support one's viewpoint against a scientific consensus or against overwhelming evidence to the contrary. They are effective in distracting from actual useful debate using emotionally appealing, but ultimately empty and illogical assertions."

Note the following quotes I was able to find that have been credited to Joe McCarthy:

"I have here in my hand a list of two hundred and five (people) that were known to the Secretary of State as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping the policy of the State Department


"McCarthyism is Americanism with its sleeves rolled."


"Today we are engaged in a final, all-out battle between communistic atheism and Christianity."

Sound familiar? In fact, one could argue that nearly all of the Opiners have used nearly all of these tactics in their blog. As well as sites like LifeSite (fake experts and illogical assertions) and the AFA (homosexual conspiracy theories).

Is there an overlap between denialism and McCarthyist sympathizers? I would love to to delve into that idea one day.

But I digress. Fitz frequently uses McCarthyist tactics in his blog posts.

What is McCarthyism?

Merriam-Webster defines it as: "a mid-20th century political attitude characterized chiefly by opposition to elements held to be subversive and by the use of tactics involving personal attacks on individuals by means of widely publicized indiscriminate allegations especially on the basis of unsubstantiated charges."

In light of the McCarthy-esque tactics of Fitz at Opine Editorials, I have decided to approach them in the manner that proved to be successful in his era: exposing their tactics and calling them out. Fitz is the epitome of McCarthyism.

They at Opine have likened themselves to Watchmen on the Walls, blasted J.K. Rowling for making a gay character in the Harry Potter series, misused health and epidemiological statistics to oppose gay sex, and last but not least, have accused most of their female and/or educated opponents of being part of the vast left-wing, "gender-warrior conspiracy."

Fitz' constant use of demagoguery is evidence enough of his lack of any kind of rational argument.

On March 9, 1954, Journalist Edward R. Murrow attacked McCarthy's tactics in an episode of "See It Now." In this episode, Murrow stated this about McCarthy:

"His primary achievement has been in confusing the public mind, as between the internal and the external threats of Communism. We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. We must remember always that accusation is not proof and that conviction depends upon evidence and due process of law. We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason, if we dig deep in our history and our doctrine, and remember that we are not descended from fearful men." [emphasis added]

So much so did McCarthy's tactics eventually sway public opinion against himself, that President Eisenhower began referring to his school of thought as "McCarthywasm."

As the public tide shifts towards mass acceptance of LGBT persons and legal recognition of same-sex couples, I am sure that we will soon be saying the same thing about the likes of our opponents. They are/were modern-day "McCarthywasms."

Note that I write this article not on the expectation that simply calling Fitz a "McCarthyist" will stand on its own to discredit him, but for readers to draw their own conclusions based on the evidence I have provided. This article is a comparison of tactics of two people, with quotes and evidence from their own writings. It is abundantly clear nearly every time Fitz engages in argumentation that he ends up resorting to this sort of demagoguery. If and when he is ready for any real debate on the topic of same-sex marriage, I am ready. If he would like to continue the name-calling, scare-tactics, conspiracy-theories, and the like, then he will likely get nowhere in his fight.

I'll leave Fitz and readers with this final quote:

"Men who have in the past done effective work exposing [Communists] in this country have, by reckless talk and questionable methods, made themselves the issue rather than the cause they believe in so deeply."--Richard Nixon, March 1954 (as instructed by President Dwight Eisenhower)

I wonder if Fitz will have any solid anti-SSM arguments once he realizes his McCarthyist accusations aren't worth their weight in деньги.

*An interesting and relevant article about the alleged "War On Terror" can be found here.

Monday, January 21, 2008

"Enemies" of America: Opine is at it again.

I woke up this morning to a text message from a good friend, informing me that the wonderful Pam's House Blend referenced me in an article on Saturday. Once I put aside my giddiness at having been mentioned by Pam, I actually read the article. She discusses a recent Opine Editorials article that suggests LGBT people in America are actually enemies of the country, similar to terrorists.

Predictably, the Opiners' arguments center around the fact that LGBT citizens are out to "destroy the foundations of this country" (ie-Family), and this is similar to the way Muslim fundamentalists and terrorists are out to destroy the foundations of our country.

The article cites David French, a Reservist fighting in Iraq and senior counsel for the "Alliance Defense Fund." Seriously.

Yes, I also had never heard of this "Defense Fund." In essence, it describes itself as "...a legal alliance defending the right to hear and speak the Truth through strategy, training, funding, and litigation."

And that capitalized "T" in "truth" is all I needed to see to realize that this is a Christian fundamentalist organization (read: anti-gay). Because anytime someone or something claims to know absolute Truth with a capital T, the warning bells and whistles go off. Oh, that and the picture of the Holy Bible right under their logo.

I've said it before but, similar to when Opine compared themselves to Watchmen on the Walls, they REALLY should check their sources and make sure they aren't citing thinly-veiled hate groups or fundie groups that are only going to further discredit their arguments. How embarrassing for them. Especially since Fitz titled his article "Inspirational."

He ends his short little article with this sentence:

"I found the specter of a man who spends half his time fighting America’s enemies within & the other half fighting Americas enemies abroad to be truly inspirational!"

What, exactly, Fitz is "inspirational" about a group that devotes all of its energies and resources to spreading hate in the name of Jesus and the Holy Bible, something of which He surely would not have approved?

Here are some "choice" quotes by other commenters.

hazumu said:
"...America is built on the metaphor of 'Family'. Thus, that which mocks the moral wholesomeness of the family which is the bedrock of America's moral superiority is an EMEMY of America."

The always ignorant Jose Solano:

"It must be understood that to ennoble acts of moral turpitude, to teach children that it is right and good to engage in perverse sexual activities, to deliberately subject children to fatherless or motherless homes to be raised by people who wish to corrupt the meaning of marriage is a terrible, even criminal activity in a rational society, as it indeed corrupts the morals of children and society. Homosexuals do not wish to see this because it goes contrary to their desires, their urges which they do not wish to control. Rather than control their perverse urges, their concupiscence, they would like everyone to affirm and bless them by awarding them marriage privileges and benefits."

And the hateful Marty, per his usual:

"It appears to me that the vast majority of LGBT folks have a selfish and single-minded "what's in it for me" attitude towards the +/- 5% of LGBT folks who are actiist and actively working to undermine the family, religion, and the institution of marriage."

Yes, folks, it seems Opine brought its very best out for this article. To once again prove just how ignorant, hateful, and bigoted they really are.

Congrats, fellas. You proved me right, again.

In honor of his day of rememberance, I will close with these quotes, by Martin Luther King, Jr:

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." -- "Strength to Love," 1963.

"Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor. -- "Letter from Birmingham Jail," April 16, 1963.

and, just because: "Nonviolence is a powerful and just weapon. It is a weapon unique in history, which cuts without wounding and ennobles the man who wields it. It is a sword that heals." -- "Why We Can't Wait," 1964.

Thursday, January 10, 2008

Do-Over: Man who refused to answer SSM question apologizes for being an "instrument of bigotry and prejudice"

In a surprising turn of events, a man who who filed a $9.75 dollar federal lawsuit for failing the MA Bar Exam has issued a public apology for being an "instrument of bigotry and prejudice."

Stephen Dunne, an Irish immigrant, failed to answer a MA Bar Exam question regarding the rights of two married lesbians, their property, and their children issued a January 3 email to Bay Windows, a weekly Boston GLBT-oriented newspaper. In the letter he stated that his lawsuit "regrettably perpetuated intolerance and animosity towards my fellow Americans."

Dunne was denied his law license for scoring a 268.86 on his Bar Exam, which requires at least a 270. Dunne said his score was hurt because he refused to answer the question, which at the time he believed legitimized gay and lesbian marriages, which were contrary to his moral beliefs. He believed the question was used as a mechanism to screen applicants according to their political ideologies.

His lawsuit also called into question the constitutionality of the 2003 decision to recognize same sex marriages in MA.

Dunne states, "Christ said 'Love all, serve all,' " he said. "It was a message of inclusion rather than exclusion."

"After speaking with numerous members of the gay community, including my own friends, I began to empathize with their denial of basic human rights and how they feel discriminated against," Stephen Dunne said Thursday in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.

Just a little bit to think about... I wonder how many other people will make similar journeys in the next few years.

Monday, January 7, 2008

He's Baaaaaaack...

One of the nation's most outspoke anti-gay advocates is back and at it again. The "Reverend" Ken Hutcherson, of Antioch Bible Church in Redmond, WA is urging his religious sheeple to purchase Microsoft stocks in an attempt to stop the company "stop financing ungodly ventures."

Yes, I've blogged about this ignorant, greedy fuckwad before, if the name sounds familiar. He vowed to make Microsoft his number one enemy if they keep supporting gay rights bills in the state of Washington.

Now Hutcherson has joined with other "Christian" leaders to create AGN Financial Network, to finance the effort to take control of the country's major corporations. The worldwide venture asks people to buy three shares of company stock, and donate one to AGN. I have yet to find AGN's official website. If anyone out there has the URL, I would love to take a gander at it.

This practically screams AFA to me. Like the AFA, Hutcherson is using propoganda tactics to exploit gay people and turn it into profit for himself. While he certainly is a bigot in every sense of the word, what is more ridiculous are the thousands of people who blindly follow him because he is a "pastor." They shell out hundreds or thousands of dollars because they believe (?) they are doing the "Christian" thing, when really they are making this bastard rich.

For example, the article in seattlepi regarding this new development says:

When asked whether the new initiative is a ploy to make money for his church, Hutcherson said, "Absolutely."

"We're going to need the finances to go to the next companies," he said. "Anything you do successfully needs money."

I can only hope that the rest of America, Hutcherson's flock of sheeple excluded, can see past his scary, threatened (yes, threatened) smile, and see him for the dangerous man that he is.

It appears that may be the case. Thankfully.

Here are some quotes by commenters on seattlepi:

"Posted by andelero at 1/7/08 5:48 p.m.

Hilarious. Could there be a more transparent and audacious money grab in the name of the righteous? It's obvious this will have zero impact on Microsoft or their policies, but it will go a long way toward juicing the coffers of this con artist."

"Posted by Seattle_Lover at 1/7/08 5:54 p.m.

...To go after Microsoft because they have shown class, provided an equal work place free of employer discrimination and persecution, is absolutely ridiculous.

When God comes calling, I hope he really goes after those that judge."

"Posted by kd-westseaattle at 1/7/08 5:54 p.m.

Hutcherson is a fool. And a young earth creationist. Another Seattle embarrassment.

'When we present Jesus as a pro-war, anti-poor, anti-homosexual, anti-environment, pro-nuclear weapons authority figure draped in an American flag, I think we are making a travesty of the portrait of Jesus we find in the gospels.'
-- Brian McLaren"

"Posted by Liberal Dragon at 1/7/08 6:23 p.m.

Hutcherson is a moron and he's dangerous. It's almost as if he has completely lost his mind... Oh, wait a minute, he HAS lost his mind along with Ted Haggard, Oral Roberts and all of the other extremist, power-hungry, religious fanatics."

"Posted by TerryP at 1/7/08 7:42 p.m.

...As a black man, Reverend Hutcherson should be ashamed of himself; in that, back in the Fifties, the White Citizens Council and the Klu Klux Klan were working similarly to ensure continued discrimation against African-Americans. But the so-called reverend seems too ignorant, or just plain dumb, to make that connection. Bigots usually are both."

Well, it looks like he doesn't have many people fooled.

If his sheeple want to waste their money on a hateful cause, so be it. I doubt they will make a dent in Microsoft operations. Ken Hutcherson may make some profit from this initiative, but I do predict that a skeleton will come out of his closet before this is all over. 'Cuz really, he ain't threatened by the gays! He just don't want 'em influencing state policy.



We'll see what is dredged up from his past eventually. People this scary usually have some really weird, sick, or truly perverted skeletons buried way deep. I can't wait for the day they are exposed.

Crazy is as crazy does. And this man definitely does crazy.

Friday, January 4, 2008

Response from Board of Directors of Eureka Springs Chamber of Commerce

I received this email today:

"Thank you your inquiry to the Greater Eureka Springs Chamber of Commerce.
The Board of Directors of the Chamber of Commerce has not responded to AFA activities at this time.


Jeff Feldman
Greater Eureka Springs Chamber of Commerce"


But really, can you blame them for not responding to such idiocy?

Seriously? Huckabee?

Mkay, Iowa Republicans. Suit yourselves.

Gregory Herek has an article all about Huckabee and his infamous AIDS quarantine statements over at his blog.

As a refesher, Huckabee has said this about people with AIDS (in his 1992 campaign for the US Senate):

If the federal government is truly serious about doing something with the AIDS virus, we need to take steps that would isolate the carriers of this plague…. It is difficult to understand the public policy towards AIDS. It is the first time in the history of civilization in which the carriers of a genuine plague have not been isolated from the general population, and in which this deadly disease for which there is no cure is being treated as a civil rights issue instead of the true health crisis it represents.

And, apparently he stands by his statement, even today:

“I still believe this today,” he said in a broadcast interview, that “we were acting more out of political correctness” in responding to the AIDS crisis. “I don’t run from it, I don’t recant it,” he said of his position in 1992. Yet he said he would state his view differently in retrospect.

I'm just saying. If Huckabee gets elected, I am officially giving up on the US and moving to The Netherlands.

Thursday, January 3, 2008

The Faggots are Coming, the Faggots are Coming!

Imagine my laughter when I opened up this email today, yet another AFA Action Alert, this one entitled, "They're Coming To Your Town."

Basically they are trying to sell (that's all they seem to do) a DVD documenting how "The Homosexual Activists and their Agenda" took over the town of Eureka Springs, AR.

Observe this quote regarding the DVD: "Residents of the small Arkansas town of Eureka Springs noticed the homosexual community was growing. But they felt no threat. They went about their business as usual. Then, one day, they woke up to discover that their beloved Eureka Springs, a community which was known far and wide as a center for Christian entertainment--had changed. The City Council had been taken over by a small group of homosexual activists."

This video will supposedly help "Christians" find and stop The Homosexual Activists from taking over their own towns. Buy one for yourself, and 5 more for all your friends at Church!

Hmmm, maybe the AFA is concerned with this statement, posted on the Eureka Springs website under "Alternative:"

"Eureka Springs is known by many names: Haven for the State's Eccentrics. The place where misfits fit. The hole in the Bible Belt where the buckle goes through. And then there's our personal favorite: America's Largest Open Air Asylum.

Sometimes people ask us, "Is it true that Eureka Springs is a haven for gays & lesbians?" Well, yes. Eureka Springs is also a haven for families, church groups, astrologers, lawyers, artists, musicians, accountants ... we're a diverse community in every sense of the word.

Businesses listed in this section include our favorite resources for alternative healing, alternative spirituality, gay friendly lodging, commitment ceremony & Holy Union providers, plus businesses who specifically asked to be in this section because they want you to know they are committed to treating ALL people with dignity and respect."

Again, furthering the evidence that when the AFA/Opine Editorials and other anti-gay activists mean "treating people with dignity and respect" it only applies to heterosexuals and/or Christians.

Further, Eureka Springs is home to many faiths, as evidenced by this passage on their website's section titled "Faith," "Come celebrate your faith with us. Eureka Springs is home to many demoninations, and you're sure to find the one that calls to you.

Over 100 years ago, visitors came to Eureka to seek healing of body, mind, and soul. Today, Eureka Springs is still a place of spiritual renewal.

All are welcome! Along with the mainstream churches, you'll find a Buddist Monastery and an MCC church too. While you're here, please visit our many Faith-ful attractions as listed below."

More information on the town is listed on Wikipedia. Per Wikipedia and the town's website, Eureka Springs is the first town in Arkansas to create a domestic partnership registery, on June 22, 2007 (and one of the few in the South). I don't know about anyone else, but I kinda want to check this place out.

Road trip, anyone?

I also emailed the town's Chamber of Commerce with a link to the AFA Action Alert. I am eagerly awaiting their response, and if I hear back from them, I will post it here.

Gay Marriage: Live and Let Live

I found this article earlier today, from the Dunkirk, NY-based Observer. It is written by Fredonia State University professor Stephen Kershnar.

The article is about "...whether the state should recognize gay marriage. This issue is distinct from whether gay sex is immoral, because one might think that the state should recognize some immoral contracts (for example, a contract to supply pit bull puppies to the Aryan Brotherhood). The issue is not merely academic. Gary Gates of UCLA Law School points out that a 2000 U.S. Census report noted that there were 600,000 same-sex couples and in 2005, the Census Bureau estimated that the number is greater than 770,000."

Among other interesting points it discusses are:

*"The notion that gay marriage harms children not born to gay couples is a claim in need of supporting studies. I haven’t seen any. I should note that a few anecdotes are not data. As always the opponents of liberty (in this case the liberty to form a contract and have it enforced) should bear the burden of proof."

*"However, let’s assume that there was data supporting the claim that recognizing gay marriage correlated with greater harm to children and higher divorce rates. This still would not provide a sufficient case against gay marriage because the harm would be indirect. The responsibility for harm to children should fall on those who molest, injure, or abandon them, not third parties who affect how others think about the world." [emphasis added]

*"The same reasons that justify gay marriage also justify permitting adult-incest and polygamous marriage. People are still free to try to get others to avoid this sort of behavior, they just can’t use state coercion as a means of persuasion. I realize a lot of readers find adult-incest relationship and polygamous relationships disgusting, but this is merely aesthetic. The same can be said for those who find the idea of obese people having sex disgusting."

I agree completely. Anti-gay arguments that involve incest and polygamy merely prove that the objection to homosexuality is a moral one, not one that is based on love or concern for any other group of people. If sites like Opine Editorials were interested at all in the welfare of children and families, they would devote much more of their time to causes that help those they claim they are trying to save.

The other most frequent argument used by sites like Opine Editorials and other anti-gay blogs/arguments is that if same-sex couples should get marriage or marriage-like rights, then why can't other relationships (like a mother-daughter pair who live together)? Again, this only shows that their objection to same-sex marriages lies more in their inability to see the gay relationship as a "true" relationship. We are not asking for the moral approval. Only for equal protections under the law, which would be a step in the right direction for allowing gays and lesbian relationships to be seen as more than second-class.

This, I imagine, is what people like On Lawn (the ringleader of Opine) mean when they say we are using our hypothetical "gay identity filters." Instead of acknowledging that GLBTQ people have been shat upon throughout history for no good reason, they now claim we are using our identities to seek special rights and privileged status for rights that they have and we do not. Well, here is my solution to that: instead of identifying as a lesbian (an alleged political identity to some anti-gay activists), I will identify as a person who wishes for same-sex couples to have legal recognition of their marriages. It's a plan. No "gay identity filter," no problem.

Anyway, like Kershnar, I have also asked opponents to provide their burden of the proof required to deny same-sex couples a liberty (ie-that same-sex marriages are harmful to society and/or children). And thus far, not one has done so. I eagerly await their answers. Oh, and "proof" does not come from fundamentalist Christian "pro-family" organizations. I'm talking legit scientific evidence. But perhaps I expect too much.