tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2556721977124180569.post7343276317075341260..comments2024-01-28T07:25:50.197-06:00Comments on Fallacy Findings: Gender roles, schmender roles...Jane Knowhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13737513919725679578noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2556721977124180569.post-29602697068968522352008-04-08T09:09:00.000-05:002008-04-08T09:09:00.000-05:00Thank you for your comment, zoe brain. I agree th...Thank you for your comment, zoe brain. I agree that gender itself is biology, while gender roles are a social consruct. My point was that people try to misuse biological evidence of gender differences as a basis for discrimination against GLBT people and parents, AND feminists... or anything that doesn't maintain a patriarchal society with strict gender roles (working dad and stay-at-home mom). I think the distinction you make is right on. That gender is biology, while gender roles are social constructs.Jane Knowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13737513919725679578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2556721977124180569.post-25242376587492991352008-04-03T07:47:00.000-05:002008-04-03T07:47:00.000-05:00This case reminds me of that old Beatles song"She'...This case reminds me of that old Beatles song<BR/><BR/>"She's a Woman"<BR/><BR/>end of storyPaul Jamiesonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03052473631921432161noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2556721977124180569.post-62054340935475321702008-04-02T20:35:00.000-05:002008-04-02T20:35:00.000-05:00's book there is more to recognize than is at face...'s book there is more to recognize than is at face value...<BR/><BR/>Every ten minutes a child is born, 1/2500, in which the doctor cannot determine the sex, or gender. This is not talking about homosexuality, but tragically a congenital condition of birth which can be caused by endocrine agents and chemicals. These children are Intersex; they are born into a life of not male or female. Likewise in similar fashion the Transsexual is identified with a Bioneurological congenital condition, and they too are locked into something not quite so clearly defined as male, or female. The best we can do is live as close to what we seem to believe we are. Stellewriter – Conservative Christian, Parent, and Transsexual.Stellewriterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09973665718883183659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2556721977124180569.post-65433883343351327152008-04-02T20:03:00.000-05:002008-04-02T20:03:00.000-05:00I must differ a little on some of the things that ...I must differ a little on some of the things that have been said.<BR/><BR/>Gender Roles are (almost completely) a social construct, but Gender itself isn't.<BR/><BR/>No-one knows that better than someone who's TS.<BR/><BR/>Many are relatively comfortable in a gender role different from their gender, but being a boy, a girl, a not-boy, not-girl, androgyne, third-sex, neuter, genderqueer... those appear to be innate.<BR/><BR/>And having a body that doesn't match the gender can cause discomfort, varying from a mild background irritation to utter misery.<BR/> <BR/>Typical examples - men who are born Intersexed with ambiguous genitalia. Women who are born transsexual with male genitalia, and male bodies. Even if they're "tomboys" happy in a male gender role, even if they're lesbian, so partake of straight privilege.<BR/><BR/>Just talk to them. Look at those men and women born with xy chromosomes and the 5ARD or 17BHDD intersex conditions. They all look female at birth. They masculinise at (late) puberty. For the strongly-gendered guys, it's an enormous relief, for the strongly-gendered gals, it's a descent into hell. And for some it's something they can live with either way.<BR/><BR/>There's been various experiments - autopsies in the past, now dynamic MRI scans - that show just how different typically-male and typically-female brains are in various areas.<BR/><I>"Radiologists can now confirm what transsexuals report - that they feel “trapped in the wrong body” - on the basis of the activation of the brain when presented with erotic stimuli. There is obviously a biological correlation with the subjective feelings."</I> - ArzteZeitung<BR/><BR/>TS people's narratives about "being born with the wrong shaped body" have been dismissed as signs of "mental illness", as they lacked any proof of their claims. Well, now they have the proof, but their narratives are often dismissed now due to the accepted wisdom that "Gender is a social construct (with no biological component)".<BR/><BR/>IMHO... Gender Roles are influenced by biology, or we wouldn't see the commonality of behaviour in widely separated societies with little or no interaction. But the higher the technology, the less the biology is relevant: in modern western society, the influence of biology, while not completely negligible, is almost so. The oppression women suffer is almost completely due to purely social forces - the Patriarchy if you will.Zoe Brainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13712045376060102538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2556721977124180569.post-61034927454510142652008-04-01T13:06:00.000-05:002008-04-01T13:06:00.000-05:00The ignorance surrounding transgender people is as...The ignorance surrounding transgender people is astounding. I just read the 158 comments on the ABC version of the story, and it was a bit ridiculous. People denying that Beatie is a "man" because he doesn't have male organs... and others saying "sick sick sick" or "this world is going to Hell." Gender is as much a social construct as it is biology. Yes, Beatie was born a female, and will probably always have some female reproductive organs (unless she gets a full hysterectomy), but I can guarantee he has passed completely as a man until he came out publicly with this story. The only person who knew his history was the one person he sleeps with, his wife (and maybe friends). It's just funny that people can get so upset about it, yet most would never be able to tell if they were even talking to a trans-person, or an inter-sexed person. That's how easy it is to "pass." <BR/><BR/>And people say that gender roles are strict biology... yeah right.Jane Knowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13737513919725679578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2556721977124180569.post-69332405817520333892008-04-01T12:28:00.000-05:002008-04-01T12:28:00.000-05:00"I think the issue here is personal liberty and th..."I think the issue here is personal liberty and the pursuit of happiness."<BR/><BR/>Right on! Jane, Right on.<BR/><BR/>As you say, this case raises many issues, but in my opinion, there is no "morality"question at all.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03277613176895587358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2556721977124180569.post-61260365513854607242008-04-01T12:24:00.000-05:002008-04-01T12:24:00.000-05:00I think the issue here is personal liberty and the...I think the issue here is personal liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Why do right-wingers try to limit others' personal behavior and ability to live a full and happy life? A life that fits them best? People are not robots, nor cookie-cutter images of each other. They can not honestly or realistically say that children of GLBT parents are any less happy than the children of "nuclear families." It is not their job to order everyone to fit their own morality, values, or religion.Jane Knowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13737513919725679578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2556721977124180569.post-64367257601228988522008-04-01T10:23:00.000-05:002008-04-01T10:23:00.000-05:00Wow, there's a lot to think about in this case. T...Wow, there's a lot to think about in this case. The knee-jerk right-wing reactions are interesting, though.Fannie Wolfehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04296502470605119779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2556721977124180569.post-86427009338533160422008-04-01T07:11:00.000-05:002008-04-01T07:11:00.000-05:00"I guess without a sense of empathy or compassion,..."I guess without a sense of empathy or compassion, it is impossible for opponents of GLBT persons to get.<BR/><BR/>Or, one could do what I did.<BR/><BR/>As a teen, I participated in an experiment with some friends to observe same-sex and opposite sex attraction.<BR/><BR/>It makes thing abundantly clear.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03277613176895587358noreply@blogger.com